The Standard-Examiner requested all email correspondence between the North Ogden mayor, city council and staff members, between Jan. 12-Jan. 30, regarding the subject of employee benefits.
These emails are presented as received from the city, may include duplicate messages and are not necessarily in chronological order.
-- Forwarded Message
--
From: Annette Spendlove <aspend@nogden.org>
To: "rtrotter16@yahoo.com" <rtrotter16@yahoo.com>
Cc: Ed Dickie <edickie@nogden.org>; Dave Carlson <DCarlson@nogden.org>; Cheryl Stoker <CStoker@nogden.org>; David Hulme <DHulme@nogden.org>; Justin Fawson <JFawson@nogden.org>; Kent Bailey <KBailey@nogden.org>; Richard Harris <rharris@nogden.org>; Wade Bigler <wbigler@nogden.org>
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 2:39 PM
Subject: GRAMA request
S. Annette Spendlove, MMC
City Recorder/HR Director
505 E. 2600 N.
North Ogden, UT 84414
801-737-9830 desk
801-430-2928 cell
801-737-2219 fax
I also received a copy of the anonymous letter in the mail and, of course, don't know who wrote it. Whether I agree or disagree, I never respond to anonymous correspondence. If someone has something to say they need to step up to the plate and be counted. For my part, I did not plan to even bring the letter up in Council meeting.
Rich
Richard G. Harris
Mayor, North Ogden City
Mobile: 801-940-1882
Office: 801-782-7211
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:55 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
I also agree with the mayor and wade on the letter it seems like we all recieved. Everyone else has to state their name and address and I think this person should also have to do the same. Cheryl
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
I also agree with the mayor and wade on the letter it seems like we all recieved. Everyone else has to state their name and address and I think this person should also have to do the same. Cheryl
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Ed,
I think I'd like to look at the enterprise funds in "greater than typical council" detail. Please make sure Debbie has the numbers and can answer detailed council questions.
Thanks.
Kent
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:48 PM
To: Kent Bailey; Ed Dickie; Justin Fawson; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Yes, the enterprise funds will be explained in detail during the budget retreat.
this takes place each year during the retreat so council understand enterprise funds and how they work.
If rates are to be looked at I feel you should have an outside firm do the study in order to justify and not be arbitrary or capricious. when staff does this kind of study people really feel we just come up with a number to get what we want.
T-Mobile, America's First Nationwide 4G Network
-- Original message
--
Subject: RE: letter to city council
From: Kent Bailey <KBailey@nogden.org>
To: Ed Dickie <edickie@nogden.org>,Justin Fawson <JFawson@nogden.org>,Wade Bigler <wbigler@nogden.org>,Cheryl Stoker <CStoker@nogden.org>,David Hulme <DHulme@nogden.org>,Richard Harris <rharris@nogden.org>
CC:
As part of our budget retreat I'd like an in depth presentation on the enterprise funds. They represent a significant portion of what we are accountable for yet they seem to operate as black boxes that we put more money into whenever it seems that we've gone long enough without putting more money into them. I don't believe that "we haven't raised rates since 2006" is a valid justification. It implies that rates are ALWAYS going to go up. If we accept that premise, then all things based on rates (and this is much of government) will eventually swallow all human resources. As Councilmember Fawson noted in his email the other day, we need to start looking at smart alternatives, better ways of managing, cost cutting, outsourcing, etc., so we can break the chain of acquiescing to a rate increase whenever the funds run low.
I'm also concerned about the city's tendency to commission a study, pass a rate increase based on the study, then turn around and borrow from the fund because it now has a surplus.
I take exception with government's obsession with studies - rate studies, wage studies, etc, especially studies of other government entities. They are inherently upward biasing. There is absolutely no tendency toward the middle, and certainly no downward pressure as we never lower rates or salaries. No organization wants to be in the bottom so they look around to see what others are doing and when they discover that they are "below average" they raise (rates or salaries) to move themselves higher than the mean. Then the other organizations commission a study and use the study to justify their own increase. This results in an endlessly upward spiral.
Kent
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:39 PM
To: Justin Fawson; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Not sure what the letter says specifically but I agree 100% with you about storytelling.
Honestly, I would rather we look at the 401k program if council feels there needs to be cuts made with employee benefits. The 401k program would hurt the regular employee much less while those making more will be hit more (dept heads) but I think that they will be okay to do something like this if it helps their employees.
I would actually like to work together as a team regarding employee benefits during the budget retreat. I am sure we can come up with a plan/solution that makes sense and we all go away feeling better about it. I will be sending the updated city benefits comparison tomorrow; I think they said that close to 40 cities have replied so far.
The reason's that the utility rates need to be increased are due to the following:
Keep up with inflation
Help fund future Capital projects etc.
Keep the funds healthy in case of emergencies
*residents have not seen an increase in their utilities from the city since 2006. The sewer fund has had increases but not because of the city they have been increased due to the pass-through increases from central weber sewer district. The current proposed increases include another $1.67 for the central weber sewer pass-through and only $1.13 that the city is proposing for all the funds for a total of $2.80.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Justin Fawson
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Yes, the enterprise funds will be explained in detail during the budget retreat.
this takes place each year during the retreat so council understand enterprise funds and how they work.
If rates are to be looked at I feel you should have an outside firm do the study in order to justify and not be arbitrary or capricious. when staff does this kind of study people really feel we just come up with a number to get what we want.
T-Mobile, America's First Nationwide 4G Network
-- Original message
--
Subject: RE: letter to city council
From: Kent Bailey <KBailey@nogden.org>
To: Ed Dickie <edickie@nogden.org>,Justin Fawson <JFawson@nogden.org>,Wade Bigler <wbigler@nogden.org>,Cheryl Stoker <CStoker@nogden.org>,David Hulme <DHulme@nogden.org>,Richard Harris <rharris@nogden.org>
CC:
As part of our budget retreat I'd like an in depth presentation on the enterprise funds. They represent a significant portion of what we are accountable for yet they seem to operate as black boxes that we put more money into whenever it seems that we've gone long enough without putting more money into them. I don't believe that "we haven't raised rates since 2006" is a valid justification. It implies that rates are ALWAYS going to go up. If we accept that premise, then all things based on rates (and this is much of government) will eventually swallow all human resources. As Councilmember Fawson noted in his email the other day, we need to start looking at smart alternatives, better ways of managing, cost cutting, outsourcing, etc., so we can break the chain of acquiescing to a rate increase whenever the funds run low.
I'm also concerned about the city's tendency to commission a study, pass a rate increase based on the study, then turn around and borrow from the fund because it now has a surplus.
I take exception with government's obsession with studies - rate studies, wage studies, etc, especially studies of other government entities. They are inherently upward biasing. There is absolutely no tendency toward the middle, and certainly no downward pressure as we never lower rates or salaries. No organization wants to be in the bottom so they look around to see what others are doing and when they discover that they are "below average" they raise (rates or salaries) to move themselves higher than the mean. Then the other organizations commission a study and use the study to justify their own increase. This results in an endlessly upward spiral.
Kent
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:39 PM
To: Justin Fawson; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Not sure what the letter says specifically but I agree 100% with you about storytelling.
Honestly, I would rather we look at the 401k program if council feels there needs to be cuts made with employee benefits. The 401k program would hurt the regular employee much less while those making more will be hit more (dept heads) but I think that they will be okay to do something like this if it helps their employees.
I would actually like to work together as a team regarding employee benefits during the budget retreat. I am sure we can come up with a plan/solution that makes sense and we all go away feeling better about it. I will be sending the updated city benefits comparison tomorrow; I think they said that close to 40 cities have replied so far.
The reason's that the utility rates need to be increased are due to the following:
Keep up with inflation
Help fund future Capital projects etc.
Keep the funds healthy in case of emergencies
*residents have not seen an increase in their utilities from the city since 2006. The sewer fund has had increases but not because of the city they have been increased due to the pass-through increases from central weber sewer district. The current proposed increases include another $1.67 for the central weber sewer pass-through and only $1.13 that the city is proposing for all the funds for a total of $2.80.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Justin Fawson
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Thanks, Kent. Hence the need for inclusion of private entities in a comparison-- which a resident volunteer committee could conduct.
Justin
Sent from my Motorola ATRIXâÑ¢ 4G on AT&T
--Original message
--
From: Kent Bailey <KBailey@nogden.org>
To: Ed Dickie <edickie@nogden.org>, Justin Fawson <JFawson@nogden.org>, Wade Bigler <wbigler@nogden.org>, Cheryl Stoker <CStoker@nogden.org>, David Hulme <DHulme@nogden.org>, Richard Harris <rharris@nogden.org>
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2012 00:38:06 GMT+00:00
Subject: RE: letter to city council
As part of our budget retreat I'd like an in depth presentation on the enterprise funds. They represent a significant portion of what we are accountable for yet they seem to operate as black boxes that we put more money into whenever it seems that we've gone long enough without putting more money into them. I don't believe that "we haven't raised rates since 2006" is a valid justification. It implies that rates are ALWAYS going to go up. If we accept that premise, then all things based on rates (and this is much of government) will eventually swallow all human resources. As Councilmember Fawson noted in his email the other day, we need to start looking at smart alternatives, better ways of managing, cost cutting, outsourcing, etc., so we can break the chain of acquiescing to a rate increase whenever the funds run low.
I'm also concerned about the city's tendency to commission a study, pass a rate increase based on the study, then turn around and borrow from the fund because it now has a surplus.
I take exception with government's obsession with studies - rate studies, wage studies, etc, especially studies of other government entities. They are inherently upward biasing. There is absolutely no tendency toward the middle, and certainly no downward pressure as we never lower rates or salaries. No organization wants to be in the bottom so they look around to see what others are doing and when they discover that they are "below average" they raise (rates or salaries) to move themselves higher than the mean. Then the other organizations commission a study and use the study to justify their own increase. This results in an endlessly upward spiral.
Kent
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:39 PM
To: Justin Fawson; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Not sure what the letter says specifically but I agree 100% with you about storytelling.
Honestly, I would rather we look at the 401k program if council feels there needs to be cuts made with employee benefits. The 401k program would hurt the regular employee much less while those making more will be hit more (dept heads) but I think that they will be okay to do something like this if it helps their employees.
I would actually like to work together as a team regarding employee benefits during the budget retreat. I am sure we can come up with a plan/solution that makes sense and we all go away feeling better about it. I will be sending the updated city benefits comparison tomorrow; I think they said that close to 40 cities have replied so far.
The reason's that the utility rates need to be increased are due to the following:
Keep up with inflation
Help fund future Capital projects etc.
Keep the funds healthy in case of emergencies
*residents have not seen an increase in their utilities from the city since 2006. The sewer fund has had increases but not because of the city they have been increased due to the pass-through increases from central weber sewer district. The current proposed increases include another $1.67 for the central weber sewer pass-through and only $1.13 that the city is proposing for all the funds for a total of $2.80.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
<div style="border-bottom:medium none; border-left:medium none; padding-bottom:0in; padding-left:0in; padding-righ
As part of our budget retreat I'd like an in depth presentation on the enterprise funds. They represent a significant portion of what we are accountable for yet they seem to operate as black boxes that we put more money into whenever it seems that we've gone long enough without putting more money into them. I don't believe that "we haven't raised rates since 2006" is a valid justification. It implies that rates are ALWAYS going to go up. If we accept that premise, then all things based on rates (and this is much of government) will eventually swallow all human resources. As Councilmember Fawson noted in his email the other day, we need to start looking at smart alternatives, better ways of managing, cost cutting, outsourcing, etc., so we can break the chain of acquiescing to a rate increase whenever the funds run low.
I'm also concerned about the city's tendency to commission a study, pass a rate increase based on the study, then turn around and borrow from the fund because it now has a surplus.
I take exception with government's obsession with studies - rate studies, wage studies, etc, especially studies of other government entities. They are inherently upward biasing. There is absolutely no tendency toward the middle, and certainly no downward pressure as we never lower rates or salaries. No organization wants to be in the bottom so they look around to see what others are doing and when they discover that they are "below average" they raise (rates or salaries) to move themselves higher than the mean. Then the other organizations commission a study and use the study to justify their own increase. This results in an endlessly upward spiral.
Kent
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:39 PM
To: Justin Fawson; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Not sure what the letter says specifically but I agree 100% with you about storytelling.
Honestly, I would rather we look at the 401k program if council feels there needs to be cuts made with employee benefits. The 401k program would hurt the regular employee much less while those making more will be hit more (dept heads) but I think that they will be okay to do something like this if it helps their employees.
I would actually like to work together as a team regarding employee benefits during the budget retreat. I am sure we can come up with a plan/solution that makes sense and we all go away feeling better about it. I will be sending the updated city benefits comparison tomorrow; I think they said that close to 40 cities have replied so far.
The reason's that the utility rates need to be increased are due to the following:
Keep up with inflation
Help fund future Capital projects etc.
Keep the funds healthy in case of emergencies
*residents have not seen an increase in their utilities from the city since 2006. The sewer fund has had increases but not because of the city they have been increased due to the pass-through increases from central weber sewer district. The current proposed increases include another $1.67 for the central weber sewer pass-through and only $1.13 that the city is proposing for all the funds for a total of $2.80.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Justin Fawson
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Agreed, Dave. In no way did I mean to imply that I want them coming to us instead of Ed. Just that I don't want them to feel like they can't provide feedback through proper channels without sending the message anonymously or fearing reprisal.
Justin
Sent from my Motorola ATRIXâÑ¢ 4G on AT&T
--Original message
--
From: David Hulme <DHulme@nogden.org>
To: Justin Fawson <JFawson@nogden.org>, Ed Dickie <edickie@nogden.org>, Wade Bigler <wbigler@nogden.org>, Cheryl Stoker <CStoker@nogden.org>, Kent Bailey <KBailey@nogden.org>, Richard Harris <rharris@nogden.org>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2012 23:45:18 GMT+00:00
Subject: RE: letter to city council
I also wanted to comment a little on chain-of-command. If one of my employees went right to my boss and complained about their salary or benefits package, I would not be happy at all. If they came to me and said, I have a problem with my salary and benefits, and I said, I can't do anything about it, and they talked to my boss, that would be fine. I just don't want to get into a pattern of asking North Ogden City employees to go over the heads of their manager and the city manager without following that proper chain of command first. I think we should mostly be dealing with the city manager, department heads as-necessary, and employees only when there is an issue that demands circumvention of normal channels, unless we've discussed it with their manager first. There's a real issue of separation of powers here, too: we are the legislature, with oversight over the executive branch, but limited direct authority.
dave
From: Justin Fawson
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
I also wanted to comment a little on chain-of-command. If one of my employees went right to my boss and complained about their salary or benefits package, I would not be happy at all. If they came to me and said, I have a problem with my salary and benefits, and I said, I can't do anything about it, and they talked to my boss, that would be fine. I just don't want to get into a pattern of asking North Ogden City employees to go over the heads of their manager and the city manager without following that proper chain of command first. I think we should mostly be dealing with the city manager, department heads as-necessary, and employees only when there is an issue that demands circumvention of normal channels, unless we've discussed it with their manager first. There's a real issue of separation of powers here, too: we are the legislature, with oversight over the executive branch, but limited direct authority.
dave
From: Justin Fawson
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Not sure what the letter says specifically but I agree 100% with you about storytelling.
Honestly, I would rather we look at the 401k program if council feels there needs to be cuts made with employee benefits. The 401k program would hurt the regular employee much less while those making more will be hit more (dept heads) but I think that they will be okay to do something like this if it helps their employees.
I would actually like to work together as a team regarding employee benefits during the budget retreat. I am sure we can come up with a plan/solution that makes sense and we all go away feeling better about it. I will be sending the updated city benefits comparison tomorrow; I think they said that close to 40 cities have replied so far.
The reason's that the utility rates need to be increased are due to the following:
Keep up with inflation
Help fund future Capital projects etc.
Keep the funds healthy in case of emergencies
*residents have not seen an increase in their utilities from the city since 2006. The sewer fund has had increases but not because of the city they have been increased due to the pass-through increases from central weber sewer district. The current proposed increases include another $1.67 for the central weber sewer pass-through and only $1.13 that the city is proposing for all the funds for a total of $2.80.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Justin Fawson
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
I will reserve the majority of my comments for the meeting, but I do want to caution against the danger of messing too much with employee benefits, particularly a benefit that was given in lieu of a salary increase. I feel strongly that our obligation to residents is to ensure that in the long run, not just the short-term, we have kept costs low. If we reduce benefits and most of the employees walk--possibly to another city that has no problem raising taxes, for example, meaning in my mind that it's unfair competition, but competition nevertheless--we could easily spend far more than we save finding, training, and fixing the mistakes of new employees. We can't know for sure what will happen--but I think we can get a pretty good fix on it from talking with the managers at the budget hearings. Let's just not make a decision that looks good on paper but ends up hurting us down the road; let's get input from those that have far more experience with their departments and employees than we ever will; let's ensure that we are comparing with other cities where employees are likely to end up, rather than the private sector.
dave
From: Justin Fawson
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:57 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Ed,
From the content of the letter, it's apparent that a conversation with a member of the city council was shared with a city employee (or the council member spoke directly with the employee) and I think we need to be more cautious about 'storytelling' around the office as these things can be taken out of context.
I thought it was sad that the employee didn't feel like they could sign their name to the letter. Did they think there would be some type of retaliation? I am more than willing to hear from the city employees--especially in council meetings. This is a matter that affects them (and their families) directly. They should be able to express those opinions and feelings openly with the council/mayor without any fear. I would hope that they would be encouraged to share any thoughts with us tomorrow that they would like to.
As I mentioned in my email to Ken, I see this as a matter of course. With any "management' change comes scruitiny of the budget, benefits, pay, etc. With Wade's request for information, I feel like this process has just begun. We certainly aren't 'out to get' any employees and we can't expect them to be pleased with any changes that negatively impact their compensation. I would, however, want them to understand our obligation to residents to review and adjust compensation as needed--especially in the current economy. There were a couple of points in your update that need to be considered. First, remember that the only reason this wasn't changed last year is because the council agreed to go under the 10% reserve--not because there was any cushion in the budget. Second, a portion of their insurance premiums (about 23%) comes in from the Enterprise Fund--yet there was a shortfall in the Enterprise fund which caused a rate increase to residents this year, correct? Finally, we pay 3% into the 401K for our employees. Typically this is a type of profit sharing, but we don't make a profit. In my opinion, the 3% we pay into their 401K PLUS the additional 3% matching (dollar for dollar) we offer is EXTREMELY rich. Many companies stopped offering 401K matching back in 2008-2009 and many have not seen wage increases since that time either. If they have brought their matching programs back, most are only matching 50 cents on the dollar with no additional, up front, investment.
Thanks,
Justin Fawson
City Council Member
North Ogden City
Office: 801-782-7211
Cell: 801-781-0016
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:54 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
I also received a copy of the anonymous letter in the mail and, of course, don't know who wrote it. Whether I agree or disagree, I never respond to anonymous correspondence. If someone has something to say they need to step up to the plate and be counted. For my part, I did not plan to even bring the letter up in Council meeting.
Rich
Richard G. Harris
Mayor, North Ogden City
Mobile: 801-940-1882
Office: 801-782-7211
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:55 PM
To: Wade Bigler; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Some of our employees have been working on the agenda since council first requested items to be placed on the agenda. This could be where they saw it and they may have spoken to others - trust me the employees talk to each other and word spreads fast. I just wanted to point out that I have not talked about this issue with any of our regular employees other than a dept head who asked me about it. Also, since there was no name we have no idea if it was an employee or not; maybe it was that person who lives on hwy 89 and gives public comments as though they are a N.O. resident at all our meetings ÔÅä.
I agree with both the Mayor and Wade in not reading it since there was no name.
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
I agree with Council member Bigler. We must conduct city business in the open.
From: Wade Bigler
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Ed Dickie; Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris
Subject: RE: letter to city council
1. It's obvious that someone in our city administration has indeed been talking with city staff and employees concerning reduction of benefits. This anonymous letter was typed and sent to us BEFORE the agenda and packet were avalable online so that is not where they got it from as was suggested.
In the past, the mayor has taken the stance to not respond to anonymous letters and emails. I have supported and agreed with the mayor on this point.
Regarding the anonymous letter that was asked if we would read it in council meeting: I believe city council meetings are set up so there are no unnamed persons having a voice in those meetings. If this employee wants to have the letter read in council meeting, then they should have to stand up, state their name and address just like every other participant is required to do, and then they can read their own letter rather than having someone else do it for them anonymously. They have the right and the opportunity to read their letter if they so desire, but it is my opinion that none of us should do so. It is an open and public meeting. No one should have an anonymous voice in a council meeting.
Wade
From: Ed Dickie
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 12:02 PM
To: Cheryl Stoker; David Hulme; Justin Fawson; Kent Bailey; Richard Harris; Wade Bigler
Subject: letter to city council
The Mayor showed me a letter he received in the mail this weekend regarding the employee benefits. I think that this person said that they were a city employee? I want City Council to know that I have nothing to do with this nor have I discussed this agenda item with the employees. The letter the Mayor showed me does not have a name on it so I don't know if council or the Mayor is obligated to read it in the meeting other than just reference that you received it (and this is up to you all). The employees have access to see what is on the agenda and they pay attention to it so that is probably how they found out. We could see a few employees come to the meeting tomorrow - once again I have not asked them to do so, they are/will be acting on their own.
I will send an updated city benefit spreadsheet tomorrow before the meeting. We have sent an email out asking for this info and as they respond we add it to the spreadsheet. We thought it would be helpful for council e to know what other cities are currently providing their employees.
Respectfully,
Ed
Edward Dickie
City Manager
North Ogden City
Office: 801-737-2200
Cell: 801-940-1890
Comments