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PDF versionThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, like all religions in Utah, has a vital role to play in making Utah a better place to live, work, and raise a family. Sutherland's important role is to constructively help elected officials craft sound, principle-based public policy toward that same end. We recognize the growing differences between religious and secular cultures within Salt Lake City and commend the LDS Church for its earnest desire to keep cultural and political tensions to a minimum.
As a public relations opportunity, the LDS Church's statement before the Salt Lake City Council may assuage the minds and soften the hearts of advocates of "gay rights" in Utah. As a policy statement, it is problematic. The approved ordinances before the Salt Lake City Council are unsound in principle, clarity, and effect.
We have learned from California and other states that the meaning of marriage will die by a thousand cuts. Each new inclusion in the law of such vague terms as "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" represents a mounting threat to the meaning of marriage. Of course, each one, singly and in isolation, does no violence to the meaning of marriage. However, the legal debate is far ahead of such parochial analysis. Unfortunately, homosexual activists seeking to redefine the meaning of marriage -- as well as activist courts seeking to do the same -- do not view these types of ordinances singly or in isolation, but as a pattern of public opinion to justify radical changes to law as we saw in California, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Vermont.
As we have stated previously, we hold that the approved ordinances are vague, dangerously broad, and unjust to the parties they seek to regulate.
We, once again, call on the Utah State Legislature to overturn these local ordinances on the basis of sound public policy.
Jeff Reynolds
Sutherland Institute
Salt Lake City
efialtis knows no Civilization
Well, well, efialtis from this one thread it sounds like your church has a hard time with discrimination of any kind. Yet your church is guilty of all kinds of discrimination right from it's start. Whats more your religion did this with out laws or governments. Now your church is faced with the very real fact that you have backed the wrong horse the whole time in blocking rights to some people. Don't even for one second think you can peddle that sewer gas that the LDS church is apposed too discrimination, blacks and women, gays have been treated as less than equal in you church for it's whole life span. And now you talking out the other side of your mouth, you lie, and and you do not and can not speak for the other members of your religion.
Civilization starts when it is allowed to move forward, the founding fathers never once said that their ideal was meant to be the norm for all American history. Now you can sell you god tripe all you want to you and your kind, just stay out of the way of progress because it will be your own world that rolls over you.
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥SANDY♥♥♥♥♥♥
Why can't those people that are able to make that great leap of faith to religion not be able to understand that not all of us jumped off the religion cliff with you. Keep you theological virtue out of the courtroom and law making.
♥Pretty lady waves good bye♥
☮єχρєяιєи¢є☮ Peace and truth will always set you free!
Marriage
Plural marriage pertained to Israel as a requirement to prevent "Leaven" from affecting their bloodlines; "Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan" Gen 28:6 The Saviour's genealogy came through Shem, Arphaxad, Eber, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and Jesus thorugh His mother Mary and Immaculate Conception. Isaac and Jacob adhered to the command; Ishmael and Esau did not. God ordains Governments Laws according to His purpose; hence pulral marriage is practiced in some Middle Eastern Nations but not in most Western nations. Mat 5 & 19; Mark 10; Lk 16 and 1 Cor 7 are rules of Marriage and Divorce between Man and Woman rest on "Fornication". Un-married sex causes a sort of inverted pyramid of flesh to which all are joined.
The Law ended when God was Crucified; The Tree os Life was nailed to the Tree of Knowledge. the same rules of physical fornication apply to persons Married to the Lamb; in Rev 19:7, we read these are the only persons who will attain Salvation and avoid God's Wrath. The reason Efialtis maintains plural marriage is part of the Law is because the Mormon Church is not built on the perfect Blood Atonement of Jesus Christ as God in Flesh.
We can live under Law or Grace, but not both. Jesus was made a Curse under the Law for all who accept His Atonement; the Law is a Curse with certain Judgment for all others. Paul said a debtor to any part of the Law is a debtor to the entire Law; without physical sons of Aaron or a Levitical Priesthood to act as intermediary, this is impossible. This is why the Glory os the LORD departed Solomon's Temple in Eze 8 by the exact same route God in flesh took 700 years later; He nailed His Sins to the Tree of Knowledge, making it a Curse for all who choose that path.
"...the Church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing" Eph 5:24 Marriage is ordained by God both physically and spiritually; if you want to be Married to the Lamb at the end of your life, polygamy, fornication, homosexuality and adultery cannot be justified.
Gay Marriage
"Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man...blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is" Jer 17:5; 7 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" Lev 18:22 God did not ordain the LDS or any other Church to interpret His Word.
Oops someone let Howard out, call the animal control Bob 11X:360
Howard none of this says in its language the words gay or marriage, this is not a god law it is a bunch of vague words from long old and dead men that lived in another time. If you want to live in the dark ages good for you, but your laws of your so called god did'nt stop anything because they are not real and never will be real. Gay marriage is not about you holy God laws, it is about real national government law.
Keep you god laws, let the sane people run the real world. But keep building that ark the lumber store needs the business :)
Remember
efialtis,
I don't remember everything from my Utah history class back in high school (it's been a while) but I seem to remember a time when the LDS church was trying to change the definition of marriage from "man and woman" to "man and women." I also happen to know that the church still teaches that it the latter definition is the one that will be used in heaven and eventually, here on earth.
Considering the fact that I continue to hear the position, "it has always been a union between a man and a women, so it should stay that way" as a primary argument, I want you to remember your statement, " "Marriage" has always been defined; a Religious (and Civil) Union of MAN and WOMAN." and stand behind it, even when the church tries to change it again.
Lastly, consider this, just because we've (America, society, humanity... whoever) always done something a certain way doesn't mean we shouldn't change. Slavery had been accepted by almost every society to evey inhabit the earth and even was allowed by your God for some time (as long as you didn't treat them too bad), and us crazy liberal, sinning, Americans still decided against it. And we're better off for it... at least I think so. That's just one example, there are many.
Tradition is important to any society, but so is progress. Allowing two men or women to be married (as recognized by the state, not your church) would have no impact on your marriage what so ever. So, why are you so threatend?
2 things
#1 - "Man and Woman" or "Man and Women", it is the same. Heterosexual. Biologicaly correct.
#2 - When it comes to God's Laws, we (men) cannot change them. Only God can change them. Yes, plural marriage is God's law. Currently we either cannot practice it, but it is still God's law. So is the "Law of Consecration". We don't currently practice that either...but it is still God's law. We don't change God's law, we simply cannot or do not live the law currently. This will be something that we must reconcile with God. Either we are not in a position to do it, or we are incapable (because of greed, etc).
If one man has several wives
If one man has several wives then some men will be left with no wives. The LDS doctrine state that you need to be married to enter the highest level of heaven. What of the faithful worthy men who are unable to find a wife.
We don't care about your God's law
So what you saying efialtis is that plural marriage is all good and OK because God said so?
We don't care about your God's law, it is not the real law to live by, your God's laws have no place in our government making laws. If we had your out dated laws still to this day women would have no rights, blacks would be slaves, you could have a bunch of wives, black no priesthood, blacks could not buy a home, or run a company, and Utah would be called Zion, you could lynch gays and blacks no problem, and no one would be working on Sundays, and mixed races could not get married. Is that what you want because all of that was once your God's law and your religion change those things too..... oh and woman and women are not the same thing (even if you wished and prayed really hard) – they are not the same – heterosexual and homosexual if you get my point. Get ready because you God's law is about to be changed very soon.
how sweet
For someone who doesn't care, you cared enough to post a response... how sweet.
Civilization
I have made the statement before that we have lost our civility. We currently have to legislate civil behavior. This is a very sad state of affairs.
We already have discrimination laws and hate crime laws...but the corruption brought about by the lawyers has narrowed the scope of these laws beyond what was intended. Where does this leave us? Making more and more laws for the very same thing.
Discrimination is bad policy. Discrimination for any reason is bad policy. The LDS Church supports anti-discrimination. I agree with this. They aren't saying it is ok to be gay or ok to "live in sin", they are simply saying that discrimination is bad.
This is a whole other thing from the Marriage issue. Marriage is a traditional religious institution. The legal side, the civil law side of marriage can also be enjoyed by all people equaly. They simply need to contact a lawyer and have the civil contract drawn up, and the "civil union" can take place.
I am not saying that I agree with it, but people have the right to go against God's law. To stop them is to embrace Satan's plan. We can, however, define what we will and will not accept as a Church. This was done with Prop. 8, and the measure recently passed in Maine. These measure defined "Marriage" as "Marriage" has always been defined; a Religious (and Civil) Union of MAN and WOMAN.
What we must realize, however, is that these issues are all distinct and individual. They are not connected. Supporting "anti-discrimination" is not also supporting "gay marriage", but it may (legally) mean supporting hetero-sexual and homo-sexual Civil Unions. And that is not a Religious issue at all, it is a Civil Law issue.
I think this is what is ment by "being in the world, but not of the world"...