OGDEN — I’ll have the fish and chips — and hold the holster.

Sea Bears Ogden Fish House, which made headlines earlier this spring for the restaurant’s practice of being an “open-carry” business, may be putting away the guns. Or, at the very least, concealing them.

For more than a year now, owners, employees and patrons of the restaurant at 2550 Washington Blvd. have been invited to open-carry the firearm of their choice in the establishment. But with the recent announcement Sea Bears is relocating to the former site of Union Grill, Ogden’s Union Station officials now say they won’t permit openly carrying a gun there.

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Sea Bears moving to Union Station raised issues with some in the community about employees and patrons carrying handguns in visible holsters. Charles Trentelman, secretary of the Union Station Foundation, said they’d been trying to work out those issues.

“The whole gun thing, it was a concern because we know it’s very divisive,” Trentelman said.

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As a result, Trentelman said when foundation executive director Elizabeth Sutton negotiated the contract with Sea Bears, it included a number of provisions regarding open-carry. Among them was that weapons could only be carried by owners and servers who’ve had safety classes and background checks, that weapons had to be holstered, and that the guns could be no longer than 12 inches. Weapons would also only be allowed inside the restaurant, and not in other areas of Union Station.

“There was also the provision that if it became an issue, Elizabeth could say, ‘No, we’re not going to allow open-carry guns,’” Trentelman said. “They assured us it would all be done carefully, and with that mutual agreement, we went ahead with it.”

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However, when word got out about some wanting to exercise their Second Amendment rights, that’s when others began employing their First Amendment rights. After Union Station officials received numerous complaints about the restaurant’s open-carry policy, Sutton decided to exercise the weapons clause in the contract.

Sutton said there’s been a lot of misinformation circulating about Sea Bears, and she wanted to clear that up.

“I believe the misinformation came with people believing that we were going to allow open-carry in the Station,” Sutton said. “It is not allowed, and we have not had a problem. I had my staff put up signs today.”

On Friday, signs were posted on the doors of the building at 2501 Wall Ave. reading: “The open carry of firearms is not permitted in Union Station.”

Sutton and Trentelman say Union Station is erring on the side of caution.

“In this day and age, to see somebody carrying in public, you don’t know right away if it’s friendly or scary,” Sutton said. “So, to make everyone feel safe, we felt that open-carry does not meet our mission and goal.”

Trentelman said the issue may seem a bit odd at a place that houses the John M. Browning Firearms Museum.

“It is kind of ironic,” Trentelman admitted. “Here we are, a gun museum …”

Sutton pointed out the contract doesn’t preclude the carrying of weapons by those with concealed-carry permits.

“But, according to the permit, they have to remain concealed,” Sutton said.

Sutton said she’s talked to restaurant owners Tony and Monika Siebers, and they’ve been responsive to her concerns.

“They have been very amenable to no open-carry,” Sutton said.

Sea Bears started moving into Union Station on Sunday, Aug. 14. The Siebers say they’ve been busy getting ready to serve customers and declined to comment on the issue.

“We’ve had a great relationship (with Union Station) and we’re excited to be here,” Monika Siebers said late Friday. “But as far as the open-carry, we’re not ready to say anything.”

Despite the rocky start to the relationship, Sutton hopes Union Station and Sea Bears will be able to work together.

“We’re excited that Sea Bears is moving in,” Sutton said. “We’re happy to have Monika and Tony; we think they’re going to be a great addition.”

Having a tenant in the space formerly occupied by Union Grill isn’t a luxury, according to Trentelman. The Union Station Foundation’s annual operating budget is about $800,000. When Union Grill moved out, it left Union Station with some leased space “we had to fill up fairly quickly.”

Trentelman said the foundation gets $54,000 per year from the city and another $100,000 per year from the legislature for the state railroad museum. But utilities alone run more than $150,000 a year. The foundation has to come up with the rest of the money, through leases and other means.

“And the biggest lease was Union Grill,” Trentelman said, estimating rent at around $7,000 a month. “That was giving us a good chunk of change every month. When they decided to leave, it left us in the lurch.”

As uncomfortable as this dust-up may be, Sutton said she appreciates everyone’s openness.

“If nothing else, I’m glad the community is talking about this,” she said. “This is such a taboo subject, it’s good to get it out into the open.”

Contact Mark Saal at 801-625-4272, or msaal@standard.net. Follow him on Twitter at @Saalman. Like him on Facebook at facebook.com/SEMarkSaal.

(78) comments

anonymous

I think I'd sound more ignorant if I couldn't spell 'throw'.

anonymous

You are trying to redefine terms. No it's semi-automatic or self loading. If you through the word automatic around you sound ignorant.

Sabbatical

Love having drinks on my sailboat then The Top of the Mark....hard to beat!

anonymous

Yet, Chick Fil A and Hobby Lobby are doing just fine.I suspect. however, you'd be perfectly fine supporting businesses whose politics do swing your direction, whatever that may be?

anonymous

Firearms laws are handled at the state level. The city of Ogden (and by extension, Union Station) have no say in those laws EXCEPT with regard to discharge. That's the one thing that political subdivisions of the state can regulate.Calling on the City and/or Union Station to do something is pretty much pointless as they can do nothing.

anonymous

Never been back to their restaurant since the open carry issue surfaced? You mean since they opened for business on day one? They carried from day one, that is part of their appeal. Don't lie to make a point. Further you know that the permit does not require concealment. Nor can Union Station prohibit open or concealed carry.

anonymous

The right is not about the militia. The entire bill of rights is reserving rights to the people, only in the 9th and 10th amendments are rights also reserved to the state. Drop the second part of the sentence and the amendment has no conclusive meaning. Drop the first part and the amendment still says the exact same thing. I suggest you go back to school and study English sentence construction a bit before you try to comment this topic again.Why shouldn't you have a personal stash of missiles? Owning them does no-one any harm. if you use them without legal justification then you have harmed others and have broken the law. Same as with firearms. Owning a firearm, using it as allowed by the law does no-one any harm. If I use it to harm others, without legal justification (defense of self or others) then I have broken the law.

anonymous

I will not be visiting Union Station as long as they have a pro-crime gun control policy against the law abiding gun owners.

skiingcancer

I just read the article on guns, Lowderwith crowder. Great article. The only problem is the anti-gun folks who should read it, won't. There was a notation in the ISJ, Any government who cannot trust it's citizens with weapons, cannot itself be trusted. It is easier to leave your head in the sand than become educated.

Sabbatical

HUH....you have a really bad case of GYHOUA....!

skiingcancer

Poor Mr. Foss. Still a lefty after all these years. You know what they say about keeping your head in the sand!

anonymous

Elementary school sentence structure, folks. It's not rocket science.

anonymous

Wow. What just happened here? I agree.

anonymous

I know how a semi-automatic works. We're not talking about the misuse of 'assault weapon' dingus. Magazine fed pistols that AUTOMATICALLY expel a round and load a fresh round have been called automatics for decades even though their firing action is semi-automatic.

anonymous

I will be sure to give them some business to make up for your absence. Just curious, are you a business owner?

anonymous

No matter what the media tells you, it is NOT an automatic. It is a semi-automatic. When you pull the trigger on an automatic firearm it will continue to fire until you release the trigger. A semi-automatic firearm, requires a separate trigger action to fire each round.

thiirane

Completely agree Blue Flame. Even more concerning are the ridiculous attempts by Marc Saal (Mr.Giggle) and Editorial Staff of the Standard Examiner to fan the flames on this topic in an obvious attempt to increase circulation. In the interest of portraying Ogden as a great place to live, I pray that someday the leadership in Ogden and the Foundation will come to their senses and stop this non-sense. When I tell people from Salt Lake and other places, about this craziness, they just shake their heads. I hope as you suggest that market forces will drive a favorable out-come; a restaurant that does not use divisiveness to market their business.

anonymous

Jiff, I think that you need to stop typing. Your 1st Amendment Right only applies to a quill and parchment, carried on horseback. The founders of this formerly great country, obviously could not have ever predicted that a personal computer and the internet would ever be created and therefore are not covered by the Right of free speech.

anonymous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

anonymous

Thanks for the lecture about how you're on the side of truth, justice and the American way. I'm sure that self righteousness and condescension to those with whom you disagree, as well as painting yourself as a victim of those with differing perspectives, adds much to freedom and liberty. (And by the way, the Supreme Court once upheld slavery and many other things about which we have changed our collective minds.)

anonymous

Well said! You're absolutely right.

anonymous

The restaurant has been in business for over a year and is moving to a larger space to accommodate the business. So much for your asinine comment about the owners being "serious business owners." And obviously, their customers (the number of which are causing their move into larger quarters) don't have a problem with their open carry policy. If YOU don't like seeing people carrying "scary guns," YOU can always patronize Chuck E Cheese. More room for the rest of us.

anonymous

Why are guns even an issue with people? Check the stats vs heroin, meth, and cocaine. Why are these things not discussed? Is it cause they are "banned" and "controlled" unlike guns? (dont mind though, its easier to get meth on the street than a hand gun LULZ) Is it Taboo around here? I dont get it.

wesdallas

Hey Jiff, like I posted above. Your misguided interpretation of the amendment as already been stomped on, three times by our highest court, which explained its rationale and which thoroughly repudiated, eviscerated, and rejected your erroneous misreading of it. You are free to go through the rest of your life in ignorance but regrettably for you, you will also have to endure the reality that forever more Americans have, and will always have, the individual right to weapons of war, designed for the battlefield with the ability to kill lots of nefarious and dangerous people quickly. Now it is a legal and mathematical impossibility to eliminate all the tens of millions of such weapons. Obama couldn't do it. Frau Clinton will not be able to do it. It doesn't matter who she appoints to the courts and who is elected in our legislature, or what garbage communist laws they enact, free men and women will never give them up.

anonymous

But of courses, every reasonable person knows that ordinary citizens holding missiles is a really bad idea, as they should be very carefully regulated by the government to prevent mass killings and other horrible events.

anonymous

Eh, I can do that too: the amendment is really about the right to a militia, which at the time meant citizens using muskets but today means laser guided missiles. The second part of the sentence is merely an additional section that equates the right of arms with the right of national defense, an equation that no longer hold true. Well, that or the constitution should ensure my right to a personal stash of laser guided missiles.

anonymous

Nothing, that introductory clause is not essential to the meat of the paragraph. The right is reserved to the people. The militia clause is merely an introductory clause explaining a reason for the right. But what is a well regulated militia. Well in the context of 1780's American English "Well Regulated" means working or functional. In order for a Militia to work well, the members must have arms that they can respond with when called out. A disarmed populace does not make for a functional militia. Thus the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.That said, this rule is illegal.

anonymous

Sea Bears needs to push back on this. Ogden City owns Union Station, that makes it an entity of the State. That makes their no open carry illegal under the Uniform Firearms Code. Union Station cannot legally implement such a policy.

anonymous

Can you cite the Utah state, county or municipal law that requires that?

anonymous

Obviously not the mentally challenged individual that replied to my comment.

anonymous

Grocery stores have to have an alcohol permit, as well. A few stores in Utah County don't sell beer and, hence, have no liquor license.

krisbaker355

How can you challenge the CONTRACT YOU SIGNED? Huh?

krisbaker355

I vote with my wallet. Why should I give money to a politicized business that is working in opposition to my beliefs?Take that, also, Hobby Lobby and all those businesses that supported Prop 8.

anonymous

I care . . . that's why I asked the question. Thank you for your input, Wayne. I thought all that is needed to sell beer in Utah is a beer license, and that liquor licenses were reserved for restaurants and taverns that sell mixed drinks and "strong" beer.

Sabbatical

So she won't get her "Harry Callahan" dirty....

Sabbatical

XT...that was good, really good!

Sabbatical

BF......Well said, end of story!

Sabbatical

I'm sure you will...how many times did you go to Washington!!

anonymous

I LOVE the server wearing gloves whilst carrying an automatic.

anonymous

I'm in the habit of leaving my firearms at home when I dine. I also would prefer not to have the staff packing heat while I dine. Thus, I won't eat at Sea Bears.

anonymous

May I inquire if you are a clairvoyant? Seriously, if you are I will dine with you every night and leave my firearms at home.

anonymous

I am definitely not a clairvoyant (though what that has to do with the price of cow sunshine in those old Kentucky hills of Tennessee kind of eludes me).

anonymous

How do you know if a particular person is carrying? If it's open, yes, it can be seen, but what about concealed carry? I think that's what Wayne was shooting for.

anonymous

If I don't see it, the likelihood is I'm not going to see it. Those carrying concealed weapons are licensed to do so. Open carry creates an atmosphere I don't like in a restaurant, so I won't eat at one with an open carry policy. Note that I did not say 'shut 'em down'. In either event, I'm not going to live my life in fear. I'm gonna die sometime. It may be twenty years from now (though I wouldn't bet the farm on it), or it could be sometime tonight. In the meantime, I want to enjoy life where folks aren't packing heat, and if they are secretly, what I don't know won't hurt me.....until it does.

anonymous

attention seeking much

newuniqueusername1

I think Sea Bears should challenge this in court. I also think the Union Station should donate the Browning Firearm Museum to a place who isn't run by anti-second amendment liberals and refuse to accept any further donations from browning. I will go to Sea Bears but will refuse to support the Union Station.

anonymous

It's not in the contract. And Sea Bears should challenge this. The rule is illegal. Union Station is owned by Ogden city, thus it cannot implement such a rule. Nor can Ogden PD assist in any way in enforcing it. They can't even trespass someone for carrying.

anonymous

It has the same thing to do with "a well regulated militia" that the right guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment does, NOTHING.

Sabbatical

Annnd, allot of pubs/bars you have to buy something to eat with your drink! I refuse to let "The Church" tell me what to do!

anonymous

I wish someone could explain to me what any of that has to do with "a well regulated militia."

tebates99

An army travels on its stomach?

tebates99

The food isn't bad. The politics are terrible. Sensible people are able to separate the two. I also enjoy Chick Fil A even though they close on Sunday and other businesses that disagree with my views.You strike me as the same sort.

anonymous

Thank you for pointing this out! Open carry does not mean the firearms are loaded and ready to go immediately. However, being a ccp holder the gun can be concealed and loaded so it can be used quickly. I have no problem with either. Most people who have an issue with guns aren't very educated on how guns work. Also, I've found most people don't realize teachers can carry on school property if they have a ccp.If you want to see an awesome video on uneducated people regarding guns here ya gohttp://louderwithcrowder.com/g...

flatlander

Well, guys, it's all moot now. If SeaBears food (and service) and the draw of a historic setting (I ate trackside at Union Grill picturing my Dad, Army OSS, bound for Kunming, China in WWII passing through Union Station. Did he have tine for a cold one on 25th Street as the troop train was serviced? I hope so.) is enough, they'll do fine. If not, they won't. Just have to wait and see. Not a gun nut myself, but I hope they make it and (now that my custom won't be taken as a political statement in favpor of gun-nuttery), I'll give them try.

anonymous

I'm another person who went to Sea Bears a few times and enjoyed the food, but never considered going back after their strange decision to make weapons a part of the ambiance.

anonymous

So as long as you don't see someone carrying a gun your OK? Someone who has a holstered gun is bothersome to you because you know criminals walk around with guns in holsters where everyone can see them., right? Personally, those people running around with guns I can't see are the ones that bother me. How about they follow the law right now that says they can open carry?

anonymous

I want to thank the Union Grill for all the great times I had eating there while I'm at the Union Station and I will surely pay a visit to the Union Grill at their new location. I'm not sure if I will ever go to Sea Bears. The open carry issue seemed to be an attempt at free publicity to get people to come to their restaurant. Even without the open carry issue, I can go to many establishments who sell fish and chips and have a liquor license so I can have a beer with my fish and chips. Why would I go to Sea Bears when there are other establishments who offer fish and chips and I can buy a beer with my meal. I will go to the Union Station as I normally do but will probably eat at the many other establishments who have a liquor license for a meal.

wesdallas

The requirement for Sea Bears, that of weapons allowed only for those proven qualified by law and concealed, is reasonable and shouldn't be appealed or protested. Everyone on both sides should let it go.

wesdallas

There's a thorough and comprehensive explanation on the militia clause and every single other issue about the amendment available to you and anyone else, on line. In fact, there are actually three well reasoned and written treatises on this subject that will answer any and all questions you have.I refer you to Heller vs. D.C 2008, MacDonald vs. Chicago 2010, and Caetano vs. Massachusetts 2016, all of them U.S. Supreme Court cases. Caetano was a per curiam decision, meaning it was "by the court, meaning it was without objection, and after Scalia died, an 8-0 decision.There are many like you who have never taken the time to access and read them, so don't feel bad.

anonymous

Utah is an open carry state, so long as the weapon is "Utah unloaded" or two mechanical actions from firing. No permit required.A permit, on the other hand, exempts the holder from three specific laws:- 76-10-505 - Carrying a loaded firearm on a street- 76-10-505.5 - Carrying a weapon on or about school premises- 76-10-504 (1) and (2) - Carrying a concealed weapon (covers more than just firearms)Neither the permit, nor the law, require the firearm to be concealed. The same way a driver's license does not require you to drive everywhere.While I recognize that those who comment here tend to be more left-leaning and anti-firearm, it would be nice if the law could be quoted correctly.

flatlander

I agree, no beer in a place specializing fried seafood will be limiting. And before the teatotalers begin about alcohol not being necessary to enjoy a dinner out --- which is true --- the fact is, many people (partucularly if they've lived on a salt coast) both enjoy, and expect to enjoy, a cold one with fried seafood. Not being able to meet that expectation would be be limiting for any seafood restaurant, even in Utah.

Sabbatical

T,Your last sentence says it all "as long as this ridiculous business is operating there".Mack

anonymous

I wish someone could explain to me what any of this has to do with "a well regulated militia."

flatlander

The Station did not want Union Grill out. It very much wanted the Grill to stay. The Grill's owners wanted a larger space and moved elsewhere downtown to find it. However sure you are that "many businesses" would be eager to move into the vacant restaurant space, that appears not to have happened.

thiirane

If Sea Bears owners were serious business owners they would not use use such a divisive subject as Open Carry as part of their business model. An even larger enigma is the Union Station Foundation embracing this controversial business to occupy a space for 25 years promoted a family friend business like the Union Grill, a personal favorite. Even if the Foundation and the owners wanted Union Grill out, I am sure that there were many businesses that would happily move into this space. I dislike any business or entity taking an "In your face" position on a controversial subjects especially Open Carry. For this reason I will not be visiting Union Station as long as there is ridiculous business is operating there.

flatlander

And cue the first lawsuit chalenging the ban in five, four, three....

Sabbatical

Bob,I doubt this place will last long in this high rent area and......no beer, What!

Sabbatical

Bob...well spoken!!!!

anonymous

A liquor license is required to sell 3.2 beer in Utah; are you kidding me?I can walk into any grocery or convenience store in Ogden and buy 3.2 beer, yet Sea Bears has to get a liquor license to sell it? If that's the case, the laws in this state are screwier than I thought.

anonymous

There is not s single state in the union that does not require a special license to sell alcoholic beverages, be it beer, wine, or liquor, for on site consumption. This license has many requirements (differing by state) that are different that the licenses usually requires to sell alcoholic beverage for off-site consumption.

Sabbatical

Thank you for Beer License 101...who cares!

Sabbatical

Sure...go in in Slackwater Pizza, sit at the bar and ask for a beer....sure, but you must order something to eat with it..true story, that way all over the state. Very, very few bars where you do not have to order food with a beer...has to be true...ya can't make this stuff up!

tebates99

It's right on the main page of the UDABC website. A licensed restaurant requires you order food while you drink. A club does not.http://abc.utah.gov/laws/law_f...

anonymous

Thanks much for the info, sir. When I lived in Minnesota, grocery stores could only sell 3.2 beer and got a beer license for about $100.00 annually, and liquor stores had to have a liquor license. If you wanted the high test beers, you had to buy them in a liquor store just as you do in Utah.

anonymous

In Iowa, it is the same. In Illinois no beer is sold in grocery stores. In New Mexico, likewise, except for dry counties. In West Virginia, God help you if you want alcohol.

anonymous

Yeah, Wayne, your answer made too much sense, so Mack Foss claims he doesn't care.....but earlier, it was an issue for him. Can't make up his mind.

anonymous

So, I suppose that means you go out-of-state to drink, then?

momtotwoangels

I am glad to see this change. I have never been back to their restaurant since the open carry issue surfaced. While the loss of one customer has not put them out of business, it made me more comfortable to stay away. This is a good decision for the union station. People still have rights to their guns, they just have to follow the law in getting a permit and concealing the weapon.

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